Former Muslim Sentenced to DEATH for Believing in JESUS!
Inside This Episode
Why would a young man in his 20s submit himself to 7 days of brutal torture, including his own crucifixion, in one of Egpyt’s most notorious prisons? Native Egyptian and former Muslim Majed El Shafie was sentenced to death for his outspoken devotion to Christianity. Today, he’s a human rights advocate and founder of One Free World International.
Learn more about Rev. El Shafie’s work: https://ofwi.org/
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Transcript
Eric Huffman: Why would a young man in his 20s submit himself to seven days of brutal torture, including his own crucifixion in one of Egypt's most notorious prisons? Native Egyptian and former Muslim Majed El Shafie was sentenced to death for his outspoken devotion to Christianity. Today, he is a human rights advocate and founder of One Free World International.
Welcome to Maybe God, Reverend El Shafie.
Majed El Shafie: Thank you for having me.
Eric Huffman: So glad to be able to talk to you. Where are you in the world right now?
Majed El Shafie: I'm in Israel. I'm in Israel. I've been visiting for a short period of time.
Eric Huffman: Got it. Well, thank you for making the time to join us. I'm sure you've got a lot going on and figuring out time zones and all that can be difficult. Why don't we start by going back to where you were born and raised and just a little bit about your childhood growing up in a majority Muslim country?
Majed El Shafie: I was born from a wonderful Muslim family back home in Egypt. The majority of my family worked in the legal career. What I mean by that, my uncle was a judge in the Egyptian Supreme Court. My father is a lawyer. My brother is a lawyer. When you're born from a family like this, you found a huge big library in your bedroom full of books about freedom, justice, human rights. I believed in every and each one of these principles.
So after I was done from my high school, I joined the law school in Alexander to become a lawyer myself. And in the first year of the law school, that's when the reality of the persecution of the Christians shocked me to the core.
The people who is listening to us right now, and maybe they don't know much about the history of the Middle East, but Egypt was a Christian country until the seventh century. A Muslim leader by the name of Amr ibn al-As, entered Egypt by force. He got many of the Christians, he forced them to convert to Islam and Egypt become a Muslim country. But Egypt was not a Muslim country.
In Egypt right now, as me and you talking, you have between six to 7,000 Christian Egyptians in jail, just because they are Christian activists, not because of any other reason. In Egypt, you have a law, it's called Khat Hamayouni Law. You can build bar, discotheque, but you cannot build a church without permission from the president himself. You can't even fix a church without permission from the president himself.
So all of this evidence of persecution make me as a Muslim young man ask myself "why?". Because what I know and what logic tells me, you don't persecute somebody unless you are scared from the truth that they carry.
Eric Huffman: So early on in life, you were asking that question. Did you have Christian friends?
Majed El Shafie: I have one Christian brother and a friend, his name was Tamir. And we both of us born in the same day, in the same hour. That's how our moms met each other in the hospital giving birth to ourselves.
Through my friend, just to follow what I was saying... To give you an idea, sorry. To give you an idea of what I mean by that, they don't persecute us unless they're scared from the truth that we carry. I live in downtown Toronto. A Jehovah Witness used to knock on my door every Saturday. I never humiliated them, I never insulted them, I never attacked them. Did the opposite. I smiled in their face and I told them, "Come in, let's have a cup of coffee together." Because when you are standing in the rock, when you know the truth, you are not scared of the lies. When you have the light, you are not scared of darkness.
So I let them come in and once they come in, I lock the door, they can't leave, but that's a different story. So they do not persecute us, they persecute Christ in us.
And when I discovered that there's persecution, I went to my best friend, Tamir, the one that Christian, and I told him, "Tamir, I don't understand why there is persecution happening to your community". He said, "Majed, I cannot answer your question because it's forbidden in Egypt to discuss religion or difference of religion." He said, "But I will give you a book, read this book, and if you are really seeking an answer, you will find it."
This book was not about rules and regulation. This book was more about love and forgiveness and sacrifice. We call it the Holy Bible. I didn't know anything about the difference between Old and New Testament. First time I opened the Bible in John 8 when they brought the lady committed adultery, threw her in front of the Lord and told Him, "If you are really Son of God, judge her according to the law of Moses." The Lord sat, write down in the sand by His finger. They repeated the question again. And He looked at all of them, He told them, "Who without sin? Cast her the first stone."
Now, if you think about it for a second, the only one who can really cast the first stone is Christ Himself, because He's the only one with no sin. But He did it. He looked at this lady and He told her, "Go sin no more, I forgive you." This was my first time I met your Christ, my Christ, and our Christ.
Eric Huffman: Wow. Were you and your family devout Muslims at that point? How religious were you in your observance?
Majed El Shafie: They were what we can call the moderate Muslims. They were not religious per se. But still, it's a huge crime and a shame to the family for a Muslim to convert to Christianity. And that's why I'm sitting down with you right now, and my family officially disowned me for converting from Islam to Christianity.
Eric Huffman: When was that? How old were you?
Majed El Shafie: That was after they discovered... that's when I was 20 after I was arrested by the Egyptian authority.
Eric Huffman: So how does that work? Do you sit them down and come out of the closet as a Christian, like we hear LGBT people doing today? How does that work as a Muslim youth converting to Christianity in a place like Egypt?
Majed El Shafie: We have no closet. Christians have no closet. That's the problem. We tried, but it didn't work. No. They discover my activity. And after I was arrested by the Egyptian authority, that's when they discovered the truth about my conversion.
Eric Huffman: What was it specifically about Jesus or about the Bible that led to your ultimate conversion, your decision?
Majed El Shafie: Many people will ask me, what's the difference between Islam and Christianity? There is between 300 to 400. I teach that in universities. There's between 300 to 400 difference between Islam and Christianity. But I will answer you with one difference. One. I will choose one.
The God of Islam sent his people to die for him, but the God of Christianity sent his only Son to die for us. The sacrifice, the forgiveness, and the ultimate, unlimited, unconditional love that we see from Christ every day, nobody can deny his love and his existence.
Eric Huffman: Did you attempt to evangelize your own family and inner circle of friends, or was that too dangerous?
Majed El Shafie: There's more than 24,000 Muslims came to the Lord after we started our ministry underground. So when I converted from Islam to Christianity, I sat down with Tamir, and I told him, "Tamir, we have to do something because the Bible said faith without action is a dead faith." So we started underground ministry to ask the Egyptian government to give us our rights. We built three churches inside caves and some mountains. We built two churches, and the third one was destroyed.
We built one medical clinic, one Bible school, newspapers, and I wrote a book about the Difference Between Islam and Christianity. And the organization in two years' time grew up to be 28,000 people, members of this organization. In two years. And 80% of them Muslims came to the Lord.
Eric Huffman: Were any of them your own family, or did all of your family stay Muslim?
Majed El Shafie: All my family stay Muslim.
Eric Huffman: What was their reaction to your conversion?
Majed El Shafie: They disowned me, but I did not disown them. And the good news-
Eric Huffman: What do you mean?
Majed El Shafie: That every believer today is my brother or my sister, include yourself. So now I have a bigger family.
Eric Huffman: Do you consider Muslim people brothers and sisters, or are you just speaking of your Christian brothers and sisters?
Majed El Shafie: No, I'm speaking about my Christian brothers and sisters. Muslims and any other religion, they are my brother or sister in humanity, I can say. We are all human. They are not my brother. I cannot call them my brother or sister. Only believers of Christ would be brothers and sister in the spirit.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, I understand. What do you make of Islam now that you've had some time to reflect on your conversion to Christianity and how this worldview differs from the one you were raised with? What do you think Muhammad stood for that was wrong? What do you think Islam just misses the point about?
Majed El Shafie: If I may answer you without politically correctness, Pastor, and please accept my apology-
Eric Huffman: I love that.
Majed El Shafie: Because politically correctness is the very cancer in our North American society today. There are two campaigns in this world: God's campaign and the devil's campaign. If you are not of God, you are from the devil's campaign. The philosophy of Islam, the false prophet, the crimes that they are committing today, the violation against minorities, the persecution to the Christians and other minorities, the terrorism that we see today, that's all nothing but the fruit. In my humble opinion, you can only know the tree from its fruit. And if the fruit is rotten, the roots is rotten.
Eric Huffman: What do you say to people, just to sort of play devil's advocate a bit, what do you say to... there are Christians I know who say, well, we're just worshipping the same God in different ways, that, you know, yes, Islam has issues with terrorism and radical elements, but so has Christianity throughout the past. And if we use the standard of judging a tree by its fruits, then there have been times in Christian history where the fruits haven't been good. So what's the difference, really? What's your response as someone who's lived in both worlds?
Majed El Shafie: I understand why some Christians were saying about history, because we have the history of crusaders. And I understand. And the crusaders commit many crimes, I got that, using the name of God per se. But I need to tell you something. Here is the difference. The crusaders that commit crimes in the history, 500, 600 years ago, they was not a good believers. They did not follow the Bible. They did not obey the Bible about love and forgiveness.
But the Muslims that committing crime today, they're actually following the Quran.
Eric Huffman: Got it.
Majed El Shafie: They're actually obeying their prophet.
Eric Huffman: It's a big difference.
Majed El Shafie: So yes, as Christians, we are human, of course, we make mistakes. I make mistakes, you make mistakes, we are human, of course. But that's have nothing to do with the foundation of our belief. And I don't believe in religion, I believe in relationship with God, 100%.
So as Christians, yes, we make mistakes. But as a foundation of the faith is very different between Christianity and Islam. And if we had the same God, they will be worshiping Christ today not just as a prophet, they will be worshiping him. So don't the Christians that they believe that we have the same God, they are all lying or believe the lie that the society been telling them. But in reality, there is only one God, and His name is Jesus Christ.
Eric Huffman: Amen. You mentioned the problem of political correctness earlier, I can't help but feel like that sentiment that we're all worshiping the same God and all these paths lead to the same place.
Majed El Shafie: It's political correctness, yes.
Eric Huffman: Yes, absolutely. What do Muslims believe about Jesus? I mean, I know this is something a lot of people talk about. Maybe our viewers are familiar with this already, but what do Muslims... because that's another claim is that, well, Muslims believe in Jesus too. What do they believe about him?
Majed El Shafie: Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, came to prepare the way for Muhammad. They believe that He did not die on the cross, but he was taken to heaven before He died on the cross and God sent somebody look like Him to die on the cross.
Now, why the devil will attack such a small detail, and they actually believe that He will return back, but He will return back to take the Muslims to heaven, not the Christians. Now, that's very interesting. Why? Why they will attack such a small details if He died on the cross or not? Why they will change or lie about this fact? Because it's the foundation of our own salvation. It's such a small point, but the only point that will make a difference is the salvation. Our salvation is God.
But the thing that I will tell the people, God, He is the same God yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and His promise is real. He will never change His mind, and He will never put somebody look like Him to take our sins and our pain and our disease away. There is one savior, and His name is not Muhammad, His name is not Moses, His name is not Buddha or Hinduism or whatever it is, is Jesus Christ.
Eric Huffman: Were you surprised by your own conversion?
Majed El Shafie: I thought it every step in the way.
Eric Huffman: Really?
Majed El Shafie: I thought it. You tell me. I'm a man. I had everything. I was from well-known family. I was living in a villa. I have my education. I have my future. I have my friends. I have everything that any man can wish, but I did not have my God. And without Him, life is not worth living.
Eric Huffman: What happened after you went public as a Christian or after you were outed? What was your family's response? What was the government's response? How much trouble did you get into?
Majed El Shafie: In August 15, 1998, I was arrested at 1:30 in the morning. I was in my office. I was arrested. Five soldiers, two officers, they came, they arrested me. They took me to a police station. It's called Abu Zaabal Police Station. It's behind the Egyptian parliament. They told me, "We know everything about you. We know what you did, but we don't know the rest of your team." I told them, "I don't know what team and what organization. And if you know everything about me, why are you asking me?" They told me, "You want to play tough, we can play tough." I told them, "Tough is my middle name. You don't need to worry about it."
I was taken to Abu Ghraib prison. And for the people who doesn't know what is that, is what we call in Egypt, hell on earth. You will not see this information in the CNN or BBC. 25% from the space of this prison is underground. That's where they torture you. I was there for seven days. Every day is a higher level of torture if you didn't speak.
Day number one, they shaved the hair of my head. They put my head in cold and hot water. The system here that they would torture you for three, four hours, give you rest between 20 minutes, three, four hours, rest 20 minutes, and they carry on the rest of the day. The officers that are torturing you, you cannot see their faces. They always wear a mask. They call each other by numbers, not by names. So you don't know their names, you don't know their face.
They put me back again to my cell in day number one, they told me, "Till you say the name of your friends." I told them, "Quite honestly, I enjoy the cold and hot water. And I'm very handsome without hair." That's why I kept the style a little bit.
Eric Huffman: It looks good. It looks good.
Majed El Shafie: And day number two, they hang me upside down. They burned me with cigarettes. They beat me with everything in their hands. I couldn't remember much from day number two. I remember that they was grabbing me from my leg, dragging me to my cell, and I can see the traces of blood behind me.
They put me in the cell and they told me, do you know what will be your torture next day if you didn't speak? And I said, "I'm listening." They said, "We'll release three dogs to attack you." These are dogs trained. They are normally German Shepherd or Doberman. They are trained by the authority canine unit, basically to torture people.
Now, what do you do if you are in my place? You are underground, you are bleeding, you have no even window and next day you know that you will feed three dogs. So I prayed. That's what you do. I prayed. And I told Him, "Lord, I want to thank you for your gift on the cross. I want to thank you that you died for our pain and our disease." I don't regret believing in you. And even if you give me another life, I would do the same thing. But I only have one request from you: Kill me before tomorrow morning."
See, the problem is that you don't know how strong you are. I always say Christians like bag of tea. You don't know how strong they are until you throw them in hot water. So I don't know. I'm afraid that under heavy torture I will say the name of my friends and this will kill thousands of people.
Eric Huffman: That's all they wanted from you was information.
Majed El Shafie: That's correct. So I prayed. And I said, "Take me home before tomorrow morning from ash to ash, from dust to dust." Next morning, I woke up. Did you ever wake up in the morning you didn't know if there's a good news or bad news. My room is very dark. So I found the door open and there was a red light in the corridor. So the light was shining inside my room.
And I can hear another door open and another side and I can see a shadow of three dogs getting closer and closer to my room. And you can hear their noise. You know, when you have big dogs, the way they breathe, the way that [inaudible 00:19:10]. So I went and I sat down in the corner, I put my back between two walls. And I sit down in a way that I protect my back. I put my knee on my chest and I covered my face with my own hand.
What you're trying to do is or what I was trying to do is that I was trying to expose the outside flesh to the damages or to the injuries instead of the neck, the heart, the face. So you try to protect your important organs, per se.
Eric Huffman: Sure.
Majed El Shafie: Now, we don't learn this in the school. This comes to you as something-
Eric Huffman: Instinct.
Majed El Shafie: You know, survival mechanism. So I went and I sat down this way and I can hear the dogs getting closer and closer until I know that they are in my room. I can hear them breathing. I can feel them. And I waited for pain. I waited for agony. And as I'm not feeling anything, I start to remove my hand a little bit to see what's happening. And that's what I saw, Pastor. The three dogs sitting around me, none of them moved one single step.
Eric Huffman: Wow. Not familiar. A little bit of a-
Majed El Shafie: So the soldiers and the officer took the belt and start to beat the dogs to attack. To beat them. And I remember... and I don't want to get emotional.
Eric Huffman: It's okay.
Majed El Shafie: I remember I'm looking at the feet of this dog, his feet, and from the strength of their beating, the dog trying to hold on the ground so he does not lose his balance. And I'm thinking, what's making this dog not obey all what he needs to do to bite and this pain would be stopping? So the officer, the soldier said, "Maybe there's something wrong with the dogs. Go get me another set of three dogs."
Another set of three dogs sit in the same position, but the middle dog took a step forward and he licked my face. The officers and the soldiers, the officers and the soldiers got the same message that I got, that maybe I'm alone, but I'm not lonely. They took the three dogs, they closed the door, I didn't hear from them the rest of the day.
Day number four, a big, strong man, all muscly, officer number 27 came open the door, very angry, very upset. He said, "I'm not scared of you." I told him, "You're the one that's torturing me. I'm the one supposed to be scared of you. Of course you're not scared of me." He said, "You tell me the name of your friends. I'll give you everything that you need. You want money, I'll give you money. You want a brand new car, I'll give you a brand new car. You want a bigger house, I will give you a bigger house. You want beautiful girls, I will give you beautiful girls. Whatever you want, I will give."
Pastor, how many people ever been offered that? Everything that your flesh wants. Everything that your flesh wants.
So I looked at him. I told him, "Wow, that's a great deal. I will take it. But first, even if I want to give you the name of my friends, I don't have the energy to tell you because you've been torturing me for the last three, four days." I told him, "Go get me dinner first and after that we'll talk together."
He said, "Whatever you like to eat." I told him, shish kebab. I don't know, Pastor, if you had an Egyptian kebab before-
Eric Huffman: Sure. Yeah.
Majed El Shafie: ..but it's better than McDonald's. Anything is better than McDonald's, to be honest. I went, I sit down, I ate. He told me, "Now you tell me the name of your friends." I told him, "Cup of tea first, and after that we'll talk. Come on now, man." He went, he brought the best cup of tea, I sit down, I drink. He told me, "Now you tell me the name of your friends." I told him, "I cannot tell you all the names because I will not remember them. But I will give you the name of our leader. You can't catch him and he will give you all their names." He said, "The leader? I thought that you are the leader." I told him, "No, sir, I'm just a servant." He said, "Okay, give me the name of your leader." I told him, "The name of our leader, Jesus Christ. If you can catch Him, catch Him."
Officer number 27, he punished me two punishment. The first punishment that he slapped my face. And he was a big man. I was standing in the middle of the interrogation room. I hit the wall. That's how strong he is. I always make joke about it though. I always say it was my first time I fly without airplane. It's a brand new, meaningful, freer mind. Now for the people-
Eric Huffman: Sounds uncomfortable.
Majed El Shafie: Sorry, Pastor.
Eric Huffman: Said it sounds uncomfortable. Like Spirit Airlines, maybe.
Majed El Shafie: But I would tell you something, Pastor. For the people who's listening to us right now, they will wonder how come he's joking about it. How come he's laughing about it? And I tell them we have to laugh because what officer number 27 didn't know that they can break our body, but nobody can destroy our spirit.
They didn't know that today I would be talking to a pastor in Texas and not ashamed of what's happened, but talking about it in victory. And that's true faith.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. What was his second punishment?
Majed El Shafie: The second punishment that they took me to another dark room in a cross shape and they crucified me for two days and a half. They took off my clothes. They crucified me for two days and a half. They made a cut in the back of my left shoulder to the bones and they put salt and lemon in the open one.
Eric Huffman: What do you mean they crucified you?
Majed El Shafie: They tied... So you're completely naked. You're standing on the floor, but there is a piece of wooden cross shape and they tied your neck, your arm, your back, your waist, your leg. You cannot move. And even if you try to sleep, the tie in your neck will choke you. So you have almost to keep in a straight form. And it's the worst torture you can ever imagine.
After the third day, they asked me if I tell the name of my friend, I refused. So they made a cut in the back of my left shoulder to the bone with a knife and they put salt and lemon in the one. Mercy from God, I lost my conscious. When you are under heavy torture, you lose your conscious. Your nervous system collapses. I ended in the hospital for three months, police hospital.
After that, they put me in house arrest for 11 months and they give me the death penalty. They took me to court martial and they present me to court martial. It was one day court. No lawyer, no nothing. They charged me with three charges. Go ahead.
Eric Huffman: I'm sorry. I mean, trying to slow this down a little and figure out what was going on. I know we have different expectations of due process and all of that here in the States, but you had a family full of lawyers, as you said earlier, did anyone come to your defense?
Majed El Shafie: My uncle went to the court martial and he asked from the judge that he give me the death penalty so he can wash out clean the family name from the shame that I caused them.
Eric Huffman: I'm sorry. Your uncle went to the judge and asked for the death penalty.
Majed El Shafie: Yes.
Eric Huffman: Did you know that at the time? Did you find that out later?
Majed El Shafie: It was in front of me. I was in the court.
Eric Huffman: Geez.
Majed El Shafie: It was in front of me. And the judge charged me with three charges that I tried to make a revolution again at the Egyptian government. I didn't know what revolution. That I tried to change the official religion of Egypt from Islam to Christianity. And the last charge, that I love and I worship Christ. And I would tell you pastor what I told the judge at this time. I told him, "If loving and worshiping Christ is wrong, I don't want to be right anymore. And if loving and worshiping Him is a crime, I'm guilty as charged."
Eric Huffman: That's amazing. Was there something about the persecution, the punishment you received in prison that strengthened you all the more? I mean, you seem to not have lost your courage. If anything, it seems to have grown. What was it about that experience?
Majed El Shafie: Oh, if you're in my place, pastor and you saw three dogs stop attacking you, trained dogs. He died for me and I will live and I will die for Him. That's all what I had to say.
Eric Huffman: It's amazing brother. So were you sentenced to die?
Majed El Shafie: I was sentenced to death penalty. They put me in the house arrest again for hours before they transfer me to the prison where the death penalty would take place. My team that I raised attacked the home. There was a fight between them and the Egyptian police and I was able to escape from Cairo to Alexandria. I hide behind the police station. It's called Al-Anfoushi Police Station. Why behind police station? Because this is the last place that the police will try to find you. True story.
Eric Huffman: That's great.
Majed El Shafie: That's true.
Eric Huffman: It's like a Hollywood film or something. What team are you talking about?
Majed El Shafie: My group. My ministry.
Eric Huffman: They went to battle the Egyptian authorities so that you could get away.
Majed El Shafie: The house where I was, there was five officers or soldiers: two inside the house, two outside and one on the roof. So they came and there was a machine gun battle between them. Nobody was killed, but I was able to escape during this time. And they were able to help me. I went to Alexandria. I have behind the police station. And after that, I escaped to Sinai.
During this time, the Egyptian police put my pictures in every TV and every newspaper and they had a price for my life. And I think my first price was half a million Egyptian pounds at the time was like a hundred thousand American dollars. I don't know how much it is now because it get bigger if they don't arrest you. I will not say it in the broadcast because I have a feeling that the people in financial difficulties will try to hunt me down. But anyway-
Eric Huffman: When the economy turns... yeah. You gotta watch out. So that's still an active warrant. That's what we call it a warrant.
Majed El Shafie: Yes.
Eric Huffman: Okay.
Majed El Shafie: That's correct, but I don't know how much it reached today.
Eric Huffman: What mode of transportation did you use to get away? My team prepared a way to go to Alexandria. And after that, from Sinai, I skipped Sinai because I had to leave the country, I'm on the blacklist, so I cannot go through the airport. So the only way is to skip through the borders in Israel. So I monitored the border between Egypt and Israel and there is two military boats always standing against each other. One is Egyptian and one is Israeli and they're protecting the border.
So I went and I stole jet-ski. I went and I stole jet-ski. Now, many of the people that are listening to us right now, they will say, "But you are a man of God, you are a reverend, how could you steal a jet-ski?" I stole the jet ski and I enjoyed. Let's just be honest about it.
Eric Huffman: No apologies. Jesus kind of borrowed a donkey once, you know, so it checks out.
Majed El Shafie: Let's just get it out of the way. I waited until 5:30 p.m., which means the sun behind me. And between the two boats, if you cross like this, we'll shoot you. If you cross from here, they will shoot you. So what I did, I crossed between them. So when the Israelis and the Egyptians aimed at me to shoot me, they discovered that they're actually facing each other. It's called crossfire. So they couldn't-
Eric Huffman: They were going to start a war.
Majed El Shafie: I reached another side. And today when you go to Eilat... True story. Today, when you go to Eilat, you found the two boats standing away from each other. It was because my escape, they changed the system of the security.
Eric Huffman: Wow.
Majed El Shafie: It's the truth.
Eric Huffman: You made your mark. How long a jet-ski ride was that from coast to coast?
Majed El Shafie: Three minutes. Three minutes exactly.
Eric Huffman: Oh, wow. Close. Okay. I'm trying to picture it.
Majed El Shafie: From Taba to Princess Hotel in Eilat, yes.
Eric Huffman: Okay. So you land in... this was Israel territory, I guess, right, when you land?
Majed El Shafie: That's correct. I surrendered to the Israeli authority. During this time, because Israel and Egypt have a peace agreement, Camp David. So the Israelis cannot accept refugees coming out of Egypt. So they didn't know what to do. So they put me in prison until Amnesty International and the UN take a decision about my case. The UN and Amnesty-
Eric Huffman: Did you have a-
Majed El Shafie: Go ahead.
Eric Huffman: I'm sorry. Did you have a different experience in the Israeli jail than you had had back in Egypt?
Majed El Shafie: I was in the Israeli prison for one year, three months, 15 days, 12 hours, 23 minutes. You count the minutes when you're an innocent man. Prison is prison, it's not fun, but nobody was torturing me, if that's what you mean.
But I will tell you, before I leave the prison, two officers, two guards, and one criminal came to the Lord before I leave this prison. And maybe I wasn't the prisoner, but I was the one that's free. And they was the one prisoner.
Eric Huffman: It's just New Testament stuff, man. I mean, half the stuff written in the New Testament was written from prison cells. And it's just where the gospel does its best. I mean, you've seen that. I've never seen anything like that firsthand, but it's amazing to hear a modern-day testimony like that.
Majed El Shafie: People think that the miracles only happen in the Bible. He's the same God yesterday, and today, and tomorrow. The difference here, Pastor, persecuted Christians, let's talk about persecuted, you have one persecuted Christian every three minutes worldwide. Between 200 to 300 million persecuted Christians worldwide. And our church doesn't even remember them.
But the problem here is, there is miracles happening all around us, but we're living in a comfort zone. The world divided to two zones: conflict zone and a comfort zone. And the more that you're in a conflict zone, you see God's miracle. You understand what is persecution. You understand how the church was built on the blood of the martyrs.
But when you are in the comfort zone, you count on your credit card, your bank account, and your car, and your vehicle, and you count on your airplanes, and you count on your suits, and your seats.
When you're in the conflict zone, you are holding the fire in your hand. That's why I always tell people, don't underestimate persecution. Christians are like nails. The harder you hit them on the head, they go deeper, and deeper, and deeper. So never underestimate the gift of persecution.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. Yeah. I've always thought about it like wealth and poverty. I think the richer people get, the less likely they are to believe in miracles, generally and vice versa. But I like the way you put it. It's comfort in conflict, really.
What about a skeptic who says, well... you know, a comfortable skeptic might say, well, they just think those miracles are happening when they're in conflict, because they need them to happen. It's sort of a wish fulfillment philosophy. What would you say to that having seen these miracles for yourself?
Majed El Shafie: Can I share with you a story?
Eric Huffman: Please.
Majed El Shafie: I was testifying one time in the Congress in Washington, D.C., about freedom of religion and the persecution of the minorities. And I testified many times. Without mentioning a name, there was a congressman, without even mentioning the name of his party... So, you know, he was Democrats. But anyway, there's a difference.
Eric Huffman: I love it.
Majed El Shafie: After I finished my testimony, he stepped out and he came to me and he said, "Pastor, I just want to tell you, I don't believe in God." I told him, "That's your problem, not my problem." He said, "And I don't believe in miracles." I told him, "Once again, it's not my problem, it's your problem. How I can help you, sir?" He said, "I just want to tell you that, you know, how these dogs... I'm looking for a logic, how these dogs did not attack you."
He was really very keen and obviously spent time studying me. I told him, "Sir, you want a logical answer, I give you a logical answer. These dogs been trained to listen to their master. And there is no higher master than Jesus Christ. If you believe in miracle or not, or if you believe in God or not, you need to ask yourself one question. Sir, if I'm wrong that God exists and after I die, I have nothing to lose. Because there is nothing. But if you are wrong and God exists, you're screwed." And I left. I didn't say screwed, I said something more bad, but we're in Christian podcast, so I'm not sure.
Eric Huffman: I appreciate that. Yeah, you're keeping us safe. We're a Christian podcast here, buddy. After the year plus you spent in the Israeli prison, what happened?
Majed El Shafie: After that, Amnesty International, the UN, UNHCR confirmed my story, the Israeli Supreme Court released me. I lived another year and a half in Israel. After that, three countries immediately accepted me as a political refugee because my story was really big at the time in Israel. It was Australia, Canada, and Denmark. I prayed to the Lord, and the Lord said, Canada. The Lord forgot to tell me it's 20 below C in the winter.
Eric Huffman: I was gonna say, how'd that feel?
Majed El Shafie: So, I don't think the Lord like Egyptians very much. Away from jokes, Canada had been an amazing country, freedom, beautiful people, warm hearts. I remember funny story, when the Canadian judge looked at me and said... when I took my Canadian citizenship, he said, "Son, what the first thing you want to do as a Canadian?" I told him, "Your honor, I want to drink beer, watch hockey, and complain about the weather." I didn't know what else Canadians do.
Eric Huffman: That's what you do. A little maple syrup, maybe, and then you got the full package.
Majed El Shafie: And get rid of our Prime Minister Trudeau. This was the plan.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, it seems to be. That's funny.
Majed El Shafie: After that, I started One Free World International human rights organization. Now, it's the lead human rights organization in Canada. In 20 different countries, every frontline, from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, Israel, Armenia, and Azerbaijan, Sudan. Wherever there's a war, we are always the frontline.
Eric Huffman: Why did you start this organization? What's the mission of One Free World?
Majed El Shafie: Rescuing people that used to be in the same place like me. You have two options once you get from this experience. You become part of the problem by your silence, or you become the heart of the solution.
The enemy will not remember the words of our enemy, pastor, but will remember the silence of our friends. And faith without action is a dead faith. So I choose to fight back in love.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. What challenges did you face early on in starting up this organization? I know you were passionate about it, but did you face any hurdles, roadblocks?
Majed El Shafie: Our churches they didn't even know about it, pastor. Our churches in Canada, or United States, or Europe, they have one day, in November, I think, they call it the day of persecuted Christians, something like that. One day, pastor. One day in the year. There's one persecuted Christian every three minutes, and they are celebrating. I don't want to call it celebrating. Remembering, sorry. Remembering. One day of the year.
Our churches today is more preaching about prosperity and healing, which is all promises that I'm not saying, but the Bible also promised persecution. The Bible said, if you will follow me, you will carry a cross on your shoulder. They will persecute you because you are following me.
And today, the lesson that North America need to know, persecution will come. Persecution is already in North America, and persecution will use politically correctness, politically correctness, to destroy or try to destroy our nation. This basically what's happened, and we see this every day.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. What sorts of things are happening around the world that constitute persecution? Give me sort of a spectrum of what constitutes persecution throughout the world and what you're seeing.
Majed El Shafie: Sorry, like in North America or outside North America?
Eric Huffman: I mean, throughout. Where are the hotspots?
Majed El Shafie: The hotspots will be Middle East. I will say the majority of Middle East, Nigeria and Africa, Ethiopia. I will say China. So 80% of the persecution will happen in the Muslim countries. This would be Pakistan, Iran, almost most of the Muslim countries in the Middle East. But after that, you have the 20%, which is in communist regimes, which is like China, Cuba, North Korea.
Eric Huffman: But what's happening? What are our brothers and sisters in Christ enduring in places like these?
Majed El Shafie: As I said, there is one persecution every three minutes worldwide. From arrest, to torture, to death, sentenced to death, to be killed immediately, rape, persecuted, imprisonment for life, forced conversions. That's all happening as me and you talking right now. This mean that from the time that we started this show to the time that we'll end it, there is more than a hundred new persecutions.
Eric Huffman: What's your theory about why nobody hears these stories in the media or online, if it's so prolific?
Majed El Shafie: I believe it's politically correctness. So if one mosque... I'm not saying any, I'm trying to be logical. But if one mosque was attacked, you would hear all about it. And people would apologize and the prime minister will show up and will... if a church was there... look at Canada. There was one mosque in Montreal was attacked and the prime minister went and everything was... we have more than a hundred churches was burned to the ground in Canada. And nobody said anything about it.
Eric Huffman: Really?
Majed El Shafie: 100% pastor. This is true.
Eric Huffman: I didn't know that.
Majed El Shafie: This is like facts.
Eric Huffman: Arson? Intentional, deliberate burning churches because they're Christian?
Majed El Shafie: Yes, pastor. You didn't even hear about it. You did not see it in the CNN. Which by all due respect, left-wing media or right-wing media or fake news or not fake news, there is different words for it. I don't care what is the name of it. But the truth here is that it seems to me, number one, in North America, we have something that's called white guilt per se, that we politically correct. And because I'm brown, I can say whatever I want to say.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, you can, you have a license.
Majed El Shafie: I'm sorry, as I said at the beginning of the show, there will not be politically correctness. We'll say it the way it is. And the truth is, I can say whatever I want to say because I have a Brown skin. If you said anything, they would tell you, Oh, White supremacist. What White supremacist? If I came and I said, today the biggest debate in the United States, the biggest debate in the United States is we build two washrooms or three washrooms. What's the definition between man and woman? Are you kidding me right now? The world is on fire.
And the biggest debate that we want to define what is man and what is woman. That's the biggest debate. If you are confused, look between your legs and you will know if you are a man or a woman.
Eric Huffman: You're saying basically it's a distraction from what's really going on.
Majed El Shafie: Absolutely. It's the beginning of the collapse of the moral of the society. Faith and family is the foundation of our nation. Faith and family. You destroy our faith and you can make our family collapse, you have no society. It's the most dangerous thing to our nations.
Eric Huffman: What do you wish that comfortable churches, Christians in the comfort zones would see or learn from Christians living in conflict zones?
Majed El Shafie: Never give up and never compromise. I saw compromising every single day. I saw that the churches, because they are worried about their status or trouble status, or they are worried about if they will lose members or not lose members, they will compromise. And I would like to see them more active.
I remember my pastor used to go outside in the street, swiping the street and cleaning the streets. I remember him knocking on the doors of his followers. Do you need something? Can I help you? Right now in our churches, and please, I hope that nobody will think that I'm criticizing anything.
Eric Huffman: No, it's fine.
Majed El Shafie: I'm just telling you what I saw. You know, now we build concerts because we want to invite the people in. Let's try the vice versa. Let's go out and let's see how amazing that will make difference in the society.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. What I sense as a pastor in a comfort zone here in Texas is just a lack of urgency. And the biggest challenge we have as pastors is to light a fire under our congregations and help them to see that there's really something at stake now as much as ever.
And our brothers and sisters across the world are dying, yes, and yet, you know, as you mentioned, there are forces at work in our own civilization here that have sinister motives that we need to be aware of and fight back against actively. Like you say, getting out of our boxes and going out and being courageous as Christians always have done when the gospel has been at its best. So that's a challenge for me. I receive that as a challenge and I thank you for your honesty.
Majed El Shafie: But the different pastor, you took a step forward. You can easily cancel my interview. You can easily say, I don't want to interview him. You can easily say, no, I would like to speak more about prosperity and healing and all the flowers and the candy in the Bible, but, you know, leave the important part. But you took a step forward. And Pastor, I will ask from you to give me one day, whenever the Lord need, well, the timing of the Lord, I will ask you to invite me to come to your church. I will love to see your church and I will love to see your congregation.
Eric Huffman: I would love it.
Majed El Shafie: But pastors like you that give that platform to our voices and our ministry and tell the people the truth, these pastors that they took the step. You didn't have to. You can be comfortable the way you are and just carry on. But no, you open another door to educate your congregation and we're thankful for that.
Eric Huffman: Well, I'm thankful for that too, brother. And thank you for saying that. And we will take you up on that. We'll have you down to Houston. I think you would enjoy it. It's a little warmer down here than up in Canada. So you'll like that, but I think you'll like the people too. And you can help me light a fire under them because there's so much potential.
There's just all the resources we have, you know, all the energy that we could put into something, a gospel movement like what you've started with One Free World. I just see all kinds of possibilities if we would just wake up from our slumber.
I know that it's important to say One Free World International is not just fighting for persecuted Christians, right? You're fighting for anyone caught in the crosshairs of religious or political persecution, especially in war zones?
Majed El Shafie: For minority. But the difference, we don't rescue them in the human right name. We rescue them in Jesus' name.
Eric Huffman: What's the difference?
Majed El Shafie: Let me share with you an example. Actually two examples. There is a community school, the Yazidis in Iraq, and it was persecuted by ISIS very badly. And they kidnapped 7,000 girls, used them. ISIS kidnapped 7,000 girls, used them as sex slaves. Our organization was able to pay and rescue 600 of them.
And one of the girls that we rescued, she was 14 years old. After we rescued her, she said, "Who is your God?" And I said, "Jesus Christ." I told her, "Why?" She said, "Because whatever God you worship, I will worship." She threw in our action, Christ. Because risking them physically is important, of course. But risking their salvation is more important, in my humble opinion. So when we rescue people, when we send humanitarian aid, when we send medical supplies, we say it's in Jesus' name. Not in the human right name, but in Jesus name. Jesus, the one that came and give you this. Jesus, the one that provided. Not us, not Majed, not pastor, not One Free World Internationalist, Christ.
Then another example was a younger, 9 years old, pastor, they used to rape her 20 times a day. We rescued her and another 16 or 14 girls, include her mom. And after the rescue, we have to know their information and what's happening. And I went and I was listening to this. And the mom said, don't get closer to her, because any man will get closer to her, she will scream, go to the trunk. And as I'm hearing the stories, I couldn't breathe. I really couldn't breathe. So I went outside just to... because the stories was so heavy. So I went back again and I went down on my knees and I looked at these girls and I said, would you forgive me? And these girls looked at me and was like, forgive me for what you rescued us. Said, no, would you forgive me as a man for what other men did. Would you forgive me?
As I'm saying that, Pastor, I felt a little hand hugging me from my behind. It was the 9 years old. We don't rescue people in human right name. We rescue people in Jesus' name.
Eric Huffman: How does it actually happen that One Free World International enters in and rescues the people like you've described? What are the mechanisms? Do you have to send a team in to physically remove them? Is that how it works?
Majed El Shafie: We send a team to rescue them and I am on the top of the team. Of course, we have to, let's say, cooperate with our different intelligence institutions in our countries to make sure that, you know, there is no conflict of interest. We have local teams, we have international teams and we found a way. Like with the Yazidis, we cooperated with the girls on the ground and we were able to enter ISIS territory and buy these girls and we were able to bring them here.
So they don't know that we're rescuing them. They thought that we're just here to buy them. It wasn't like a market, Pastor. This operation almost bankrupted One Free World International. It cost us $3 million. I had to take a second mortgage on my home. I had to max my credit cards, but we did it. We did it by the grace of God.
Eric Huffman: Where did that money go? Just who do you have to pay? I mean, you might not be able to talk about this. But who do you have to pay off or to satisfy in order to have access?
Majed El Shafie: So we don't pay money to a terrorist organization, but what we do, we buy materials. Like let's say, I don't want to go through the details because it's-
Eric Huffman: Sure, I understand.
Majed El Shafie: But we exchange. But we don't give them cash money because this money can be used to hurt more people. So we don't give cash. We give the materials that they need. And after that, we exchange the girls.
Eric Huffman: What happens to the girls? What happens to the people you rescue, in this case, these girls after you rescue them?
Majed El Shafie: We put them in safe homes to receive some healing and to reconnect them with their families step by step. After that, they are released to their family within three to six months, depending on their improvement.
Eric Huffman: You seem to be spending a lot of time lately in Israel, just having followed you or trying to lately, and everybody knows kind of what's going on more or less. And nobody knows what's really going on probably, but we follow from a distance what's going on in Gaza since a couple of Octobers ago. Can you talk about your focus there, what you're doing there, why you are spending so much time?
Majed El Shafie: Israel was attacked on October 7th and it was a massacre was made by a terrorist organization, Hamas. And we couldn't stop and just not interfere to help Israel. And we are here to help Israel. And we did a documentary. It's called Dying to Live about the fact-finding mission, our fact-finding mission about October 7th.
But in the same time, there is many Christians in Gaza. There is around a thousand Christians in Gaza. And we worked with different American ministries in order to get the aid to the people in Gaza. Most-
Eric Huffman: Did you say there's about a thousand Christians? I'm sorry.
Majed El Shafie: Around a thousand Christians in Gaza. And we send aid to all Palestinians, as long as you are not terrorists per se. But I would tell you, pastor, we love both. We are helping both. But of course, Israel is the apple of the eye of the Lord, according to our Bible, and we will stand by Israel. But I can tell you that both Jews and Muslims, we never know the meaning of peace until both of them get introduced to the true principles.
Eric Huffman: Sounds like a shocking thing for an Egyptian boy like you to say something like you just said, that Israel is the apple of God's eye. Did you not grow up despising Israel?
Majed El Shafie: Absolutely. Absolutely. They teach us in the schools, they teach us in the newspaper, the society, every...
Eric Huffman: How and when did your mind and heart change?
Majed El Shafie: When I became a Christian. When I became a Christian. When I understood the Christian history. When I looked at my Old Testament. When I discovered that the Old Testament is part of my Bible, when I discovered God's blessings and God's plan to Israel. When I discovered that our Lord was Jewish son or was raised as a Jewish son.
But really, when I also skipped there and I saw the truth with my own eye and I saw that Jewish people is a people like any people. They're not evil. They're not what they're trying to say. When I understood the history, that's when God changed my heart. And that's what God do. He make you love, He doesn't make you hate. He is the God of life, not the God of death.
Eric Huffman: What do you make of the narrative that's so popular on some college campuses and you see headlines on the news about pro-Hamas protests that saying, suggesting that Israel and Zionism are the white oppressors in the Middle East. What do you make of all of that?
Majed El Shafie: I tell them I'm Egyptian Zionist.
Eric Huffman: Egyptian Zionist.
Majed El Shafie: I think this will shock them to the core.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, what do you mean? What do you mean with that term? I've never heard it before. Egyptian Zionist.
Majed El Shafie: I am a believer of Christ, that I believe that Israel belong to the Jewish people, according to our Bible and according to our education. I tell them, for all the people that making demonstrations and they went out in demonstrations, I would like to ask them, where have you been when Bashar al-Assad of Syria was killing his own people? Where have you been when Saudi Arabia was killing the people of Yemen and Bahrain? Where have you been when Iran was killing his own people because just a woman show up a little bit hair under her hijab? Where have you been when China was persecuting the Muslim Uyghurs and put them in a concentration camps? There is a big difference between cry for justice and anti-Semitism. And this was an anti-Semitism.
Eric Huffman: Do you have any sympathy at all for the cause for which they're marching? I mean, what do you make of Hamas and their efforts in the region? What's your interpretation or feelings about that particular group?
Majed El Shafie: I have zero problem and I love the Palestinian people. And by the way, I did not meet a Jewish guy wishing death to Palestinian child. I really didn't. I have love to the Palestinian people, to the Lebanese people, to the Iranian people, to the Yemeni people. My problem is with Hamas. My problem in Lebanon was Hezbollah, Yemen with the Houthis, and the Iranian people, the Iranian regime.
Pastor, Hamas hurt their own people more than they hurt Israelis. Hamas used their own people as a human shield, hiding weapons under their hospitals and schools. They didn't build one shelter to the civilians. They built tunnels only for their soldiers. They stole all resources. They abused their own people, include the minority and women rights.
They did all of that, Pastor, while their leadership in a seven-star hotel in Qatar. I agree that we have to free Gaza 100%, but let's free Gaza from Hamas. Let's free Lebanon from Hezbollah. Let's free Iran from its own regime. That would be the main goal, and that's how you make the world a better place.
Eric Huffman: You mentioned a documentary that your group made about October 7th and the aftermath. What's that called again, and how do we find it?
Majed El Shafie: Dying to Live. You can go to my website. It still is not streamed yet. We just done it, but we can do it by request for now. We are signing very soon with a very well-known platform in the United States, but for now, it will be on our website. It's called Dying to Live.
Eric Huffman: Dying to Live. We will link to your website in the show notes here so everybody can find it. Okay, I know we're out of time, and I'm so grateful for your time. I just got one and a half more questions, okay, and I'll let you go.
There's a quote from your... I believe it's your pastor. Is your pastor's name Long?
Majed El Shafie: Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Eric Huffman: He calls you a rare person who live for other people. And he says, Other than having some nice suits and a dog, I think it's funny you have a god, given the stories we've told and heard today.
Majed El Shafie: I used to have a dog. He died four years ago.
Eric Huffman: Oh, I'm sorry. This must be an old quote.
Majed El Shafie: It broke my heart really.
Eric Huffman: Man's best friend. "Other than some nice suits and a dog, he doesn't have much. He goes through life with great heaviness, great responsibilities." What do you make of that quote?
Majed El Shafie: I tell him thank you for always being there when I need him. And God is with me. So nothing is too heavy when He is with you.
Eric Huffman: What do you need right now from Christians? Other than the obvious, you know, prayers and there's power in our prayers, we've talked about waking up and being aware. What do you and your organization and others like you need Christians to know and to do to support you in your work?
Majed El Shafie: Give us a platform. Give us a voice. Be a voice for the voiceless. Your prayers, your financial support is important and is the only way that we can continue doing what we're doing. But our voice. Give us a voice.
Eric Huffman: You mentioned before we started that there's something urgent that you'd like to share with everyone listening and a final word or message.
Majed El Shafie: Yeah, a final message. I want to tell everybody that's listening to us, you heard the story and you saw all the above. Maybe we will meet, maybe we will not. But if you don't remember anything of me and the Pastor spoke about today, I would really love to encourage you to remember this one last message as long as you live.
From my life, it doesn't matter what you are facing in your home, in your health, in your marriage, in your children, in your work. Just remember this one thing. After every night, there is new morning, getting a new day. After every storm, there is sunshine. And after every persecution, there is victory in Jesus' name. Don't give up. Don't give up.
Our enemy have very strong weapon, it's true. Our enemy have very strong army, it's true. But we have the Lord Almighty. I promise you, I promise you that they can kill the believers, but they cannot kill the beliefs of our hearts. They can kill the dreamer, but nobody can kill the dream. The best is yet to come. Never give up. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Pastor.
Eric Huffman: Amen. Reverend Majed El Shafie, thank you for spending time with us today. You're an inspiration. I hope that many of our listeners and viewers will find you online and find ways to support you in your important work. So thank you so much.
Majed El Shafie: Thank you, Pastor. God bless.