^{February 6, 2025}

Confessions From A Former Psychic TURNED Christian!

Inside This Episode

Are psychics actually communicating with the dead or with demons who are masquerading as our deceased loved one? Jenn Nizza began her psychic practices at age 13, and she was immersed in the occult for two decades before realizing she was oppressed by demons and in desperate need of a life-changing Savior. Today she works to warn people about the insidious ways new age practices are infiltrating our lives. 

Learn more about Jenn Nizza ➜  https://www.expsychicsaved.com/ 

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Transcript

Eric Huffman: Are psychics actually communicating with the dead or just with demons who are masquerading as deceased loved ones? Jenn Nizza began her psychic practices at age 13. She was immersed in the occult for two decades before realizing that she was oppressed by demons and in desperate need of a life-changing savior. Today, she works to warn Christians about the insidious new-age practices that are infiltrating our lives and our churches.

Welcome to Maybe God, Jenn Nizza.

Jenn Nizza: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Eric Huffman: Oh, please, thank you. Thanks for coming on and being a part of this. I'm so excited to get to talk to you and for our audience to get to hear you and your story. Let's kind of start there with your story and how it all began for you and sort of your first forays into the world of new age practices and the things that claimed your identity for a time.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, sure, no problem. I was raised in a culturally Catholic home and by no means are we throwing anybody under the bus. Mom, Dad, these were deceived people. Christmas was more about the lights and the music and Santa Claus and the food, of course, here on Long Island in Queens, New York. Thank you very much.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, we picked up on that, Jenn.

Jenn Nizza: Did you?

Eric Huffman: Through the accident already.

Jenn Nizza: I didn't know. Wait till my hands start doing the talking. So I went to religious instruction. We had to do that. So I knew of Jesus Christ, but I didn't know Him. I didn't know Him. We were talking about the paranormal in my home.

I give you this background because it's very important. Without Christ, of course, we don't have knowledge of the truth. We don't know the truth and we don't have the truth and we don't have the protection. So here I am, little girl back in something, 1980, whatever, and we're talking about Ouija boards. I didn't have an Ouija board, but my sister's friends did. They messed around with the Ouija board and the reports from those Ouija board time spent were very chilling.

I remember feeling afraid of that, but other things were okay. So basically it was kind of already this desensitization, if you will. At age 13 was when I had my first tarot card reading. So mom was-

Eric Huffman: Let me back up just a second.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, sure.

Eric Huffman: Just because, I think just for the sake of people watching and listening, first of all, you've identified your family as culturally Catholic. What's the difference between cultural Catholics or cultural Christians and real ones?

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, well, we weren't obligated to go to church. We didn't observe any sort of structure, if you will. Outside of going to religious education and having to go through the sacraments, which I had no idea what they even meant. We didn't have to go to church on Sundays. We went to church maybe on a Christmas, maybe on an Easter. There was no praying. There was no reading of the Bible. There wasn't anything organized or structured about it.

So again, it was very Long Island, Italian, Queens, Catholic. Your typical, you know... like I said, it was a label. It was a label.

Eric Huffman: So are you saying that the lack of real knowledge about the Bible sort of made you and your family susceptible to some of the things you eventually got into?

Jenn Nizza: 100%, absolutely. Because you're living in the world of lies. You're living spiritually dead and asleep until you come to the Lord and come to His word.

Eric Huffman: So yeah, I can see how that works. I mean, you're open to deception because in your mind, like, of course I'm a Christian, so I'm good in that regard. So if you don't have the knowledge of the Bible, but you call yourself a Christian, you kind of feel like you have a license to sort of meddle in things and to sort of dabble in some of these things like Ouija boards or tarot cards without anybody saying no or putting up a stop sign or tapping the brakes.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, that's absolutely right. You're really just ticking off boxes. I mean, any religion without Christ as your savior, without the word of God, you're just ticking off boxes. That's what you're doing. It's very subjective. You know, if you're good enough, if you're a nice person, if you're a good person, whatever that is.

Eric Huffman: Right, right.

Jenn Nizza: And I did believe that. And I wanted to be good. I wanted to help people. I was always very sensitive and very compassionate, which I know that the devil played on and preyed on, P-R-E-Y.

Eric Huffman: Interesting. Because yeah, everybody wants to be a good person and help people, but that can turn toxic pretty easily without a foundation of truth. I hear what you're saying. So tell us about your first foray into tarot cards. What was that first experience like?

Jenn Nizza: Oh boy, it was extremely intriguing because I had never had any sort of a reading. That's a psychic reading, tarot card reading, fortune telling. Okay, tarot cards are a tool of divination, and I'm sure we'll get there in a little bit, but I didn't know any of those terms back then.

It was a 15-minute reading. It was a tarot card reading party. So each person would get a 15-minute tarot card reading, which is no accident because, hey, let me give you a hook and here's my business card because you're going to want more when we're done here because there's going to be an intrigue, a hook, accurate information. And there was. There was all of that.

I sat there and I was 13 years old with no true frame of reference for this and wondered, how could these cardboard cards know something about me? How could this woman who's a perfect stranger to me, how could she know things that just happened? How could she know that about me? What else could she know? What else could these cards know? I don't know, but I'm in. That's how I felt. I'm in.

I was extremely intrigued by it. I really believe I grew a "lust" — and notice I use that word "lust" — for hidden knowledge, for knowing, for wanting to know things about the future, for wanting to know things supernaturally about my life. So you know that it's supernatural, it goes above nature. You know that because, how else was this happening?

Eric Huffman: Like what exactly? Give us an example for those of us that aren't as familiar with this world. Something that you would hear that would shock you that as being true or accurate, that there's no other way for this person to have known.

Jenn Nizza: Right. So remember I was 13, so not too many profound things were happening in my life at that time. But my very best friend, Heather, at the time, had just gone on a trip with her family to Ireland and she came back and she brought me a beautiful piece of jewelry from there. You know, a very pretty bracelet. It was a bracelet. It was gorgeous. And I wasn't wearing it or anything like that. How did this woman in these cards know, without knowing me, okay, that my dear friend went on a trip with her family, and I don't remember at this time, it was so many years later, if she said Ireland or she just said another country and brought me back a gift of jewelry.

So you figure you're 13 years old and... let me just set the stage for a second, okay? My mom and dad were living kind of, I don't want to say above their means. My grandparents had to help them a lot. They struggled a lot.

My dad was a New York City police officer. Mom was a homemaker for a long time and then went back to beauty school. So they were doing the best that they could. It wasn't like I looked like I was in this mansion with these friends that were going on trips all the time and had all this jewelry.

Something that people might say today, well, maybe this person was looking for cues. Maybe she was looking for, you know, doing a cold reading. I'm sure we're gonna get there too. A lot of people think that because there are charlatans, that all psychics are charlatans, and that's not true.

Eric Huffman: It's not.

Jenn Nizza: At all.

Eric Huffman: Yeah.

Jenn Nizza: Right, so I remember that standing out to me. How could she have known that? How could she know that that happened? And it meant something to me. It meant a lot to me.

Eric Huffman: Looking back, was there something about your particular personality or makeup as a person that made you particularly susceptible to the...? Were there already things happening in your life that sort of piqued your interest in this sort of thing?

Jenn Nizza: I would not have said piqued my... well, like I said, we were talking about things that were supernatural in my home. However, that didn't lead me to start looking for readers. It so happened that, you know, when my mom went to the beauty supply store, the woman who was working there, she said, hey, I'm a tarot card reader. Would you like to get some people together and have this party? But did I find the supernatural in and of itself intriguing before that? Yes, I did.

I had a couple of dreams when I was 12 that I would tell you were psychic attacks. That's what I call them. Psychic attacks. So when you get information in a dream or however you may receive it, and then you're in a situation later on that has the details of the dream or resonates with you from that. So kind of like a preview of something that's about to happen. And I had that when I was 12 leading up to this tarot card reading.

Eric Huffman: Right.

Jenn Nizza: So I certainly was afflicted-

Eric Huffman: Sure.

Jenn Nizza: ...by demons.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, but you didn't know it at the time. And you just hear about people that, for whom the membrane is thin between the, you know, our everyday existence and this spiritual reality, and people who have an easier time accessing that or it just is more apparent to them. That was sort of the source of my question. I just wondered if you'd experienced any of that as a child. Sounds like you kind of did with the dreams and things. You know, that was pretty, you know, I would say extraordinary for a child to have such dreams. And then you have this experience with tarot cards. What happened in the aftermath of that? Where did that path take you?

Jenn Nizza: Well, after that I decided... well, my sister and I. She had a tarot card reading also that day and she was also intrigued by it. And we decided that we should get our own tarot cards because now we were going to... we wanted it. We wanted it. We wanted to access this information. We wanted to do this thing.

Just going back a quick second, I would like to say that in regards to your question before that, sometimes I do wonder, like I said, I was very vulnerable. I was a very sensitive child, very compassionate. And I believe that in and of itself made me easy prey.

I also was a child that almost departed the earth as a baby, had many illnesses when I was young and God preserved me. So sometimes I wonder, you know, the devil can only see what's in the now and what has already happened. He doesn't know the future. But God preserving somebody time after time after time, you have to wonder, God's doing that for a reason. So maybe the enemy was like, let me get my hooks into this one. So I just wanted to go back and mention that. Because that's kind of interesting. It's almost like a profile, right? Like the FBI does profiles on people.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, so if Satan has a profile on us. He had his feelers up about yours because you seem to be of some importance to God and His kingdom, I get it.

Jenn Nizza: I mean, spiritually speaking, maybe he... you know, all right. I don't want to keep going on with that.

Eric Huffman: I get it. I think I get where you're going.

Jenn Nizza: Because I don't want that-

Eric Huffman: Yeah, well, it's pretty important. When did you realize after that reading, that initial experience with tarot cards, that you had some kind of gift?

Jenn Nizza: So as I start doing the readings, of course, now at that point I'm practicing divination. And when you practice divination, you're just multiplying the demons around you that are feeding you information. So what I also believed was a gift, and certainly later on when the psychic medium told me that, it would be as soon as I started doing the readings, I dove right in. We were collecting information and we got addicted very quickly, just like a drug.

Eric Huffman: Really?

Jenn Nizza: Just like a drug.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, yeah, we had to do those readings daily and multiple times a day.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, were you especially good at it from an early age?

Jenn Nizza: I would say so, I mean.

Eric Huffman: I mean, it's a gift like anything, I guess. Some people are better than others naturally.

Jenn Nizza: Well, I don't think it's actually a gift, but I understand what you mean. So what is a good psychic? A good psychic is somebody who gets accurate pieces of information. So you kind of hit the nail on the head with people. I know because of as many readings as I would give, I would also go for and get readings. And I would judge psychics based on that a good psychic versus a bad psychic. How many pieces of accurate information were there in the reading and did any of the predictions come true? So that's how you would judge it, right? So I was pretty accurate.

When we go down later down the road, when I went into mediumship, which is different, when I went into mediumship, I mean, my accuracy rate was so high, my business was word of mouth. I didn't have a website.

Eric Huffman: Help us explain and understand for those of us who've never been to one of these readings, I think most people haven't, although these places are more and more popular, I think, tarot card readings and the like. How does it work? When you sit down for the reading, what exactly happens? And you've mentioned a word a couple times so far that I think I know what it means, but maybe I don't, maybe a lot of people listening don't. What is divination exactly?

Jenn Nizza: Divination is when you try to extract meanings about something that have no meaning from a created thing and or trying to contact the dead. So to get information supernaturally, so above nature, paranormally, which again is not the normal way to go about getting information. Instead of going to these days, you know, google.com, you go to a psychic, you know? You look at the planets, the stars, astrology, that you, again, trying to get hidden meanings from something that has no meaning.

In fact, in truth and in fact, Mercury in retrograde, rather, means nothing. It means nothing, but when I was in the new age and new agers and astrologers think it means a lot. They think that the stars, the moon, the sun, and where they're positioned, where you were born, and at certain times of the months and years when you get charts done, that has meaning about your life and it doesn't.

So you're going to these tools of divination to get meanings and hidden knowledge, esoteric knowledge about your life and about people.

Eric Huffman: So you developed a track record for being more accurate than most in these readings. So someone would come and sit down in front of you. How does it play out? What does it look like, the process?

Jenn Nizza: Once I got into the professional readings, because prior to that, I was just friends and family and random people that I would run into depending upon where I was. When I sat down to do psychic mediumship readings, I had my little ritual prior to the readings. So I lit my candle, I did meditation. Already altering my mind, already... well, I should say altering my state of mind, forgive me.

I would burn white sage, which is called smudging. It's a cultural practice that you believe that this white sage... so you burn this big bundle of white sage and you burn it. And I would burn it around myself and around the room before the client got there, believing that it would rid me of any sort of negative energy or any sort of negative spirits.

Because of course, I didn't recognize anything as a demon back then. There were spirits. There were good spirits and bad spirits. That's what I thought. So you burn the sage, you get rid of the bad spirits and yeah, and you're good.

As if demons are afraid of sage or tomatoes or salt or your imagination. Imagine white light around yourself. I used to do this. Imagine white light around myself, believing that it would protect me from evil spirits or bad energy. And then the client would come, sit down. I was a single mom at that time. I was living with mom and dad. So I was in their basement. Actually, the very same place where I had the first tarot card reading.

Eric Huffman: Wow.

Jenn Nizza: The same basement in the same house years later. The person would sit on the little couch and I would sit in front of them. And I had my notebook and pen ready because I did something called automatic writing as well, which is channeling.

So the whole thing is channeling, which means contacting or connecting with of course, as we know now, demons, but we thought were spirits, okay? And of course, I thought they were people's departed loved ones most of the time or a spirit guide.

So I had my pen and paper and I would get symbols. And I would just start like... I would be channeling through speech. So I'm talking. And I'd be sometimes scribbling really quickly. That's how I got information as well. And it would go for about 45 minutes or so. And they knew that they could ask me questions once I was done. And all I asked them for is a yes or a no.

So if they understood the information. Okay, Dad's coming through, he had black hair and blue eyes. His name was Tom. You know, that sounds like my dad. Just an example.

Eric Huffman: Sure.

Jenn Nizza: I'm getting my symbol for... oh gosh, you know, the red cross meant somebody was in the hospital or whatever, or was a doctor or whatever. And I would start describing. I would get the information all different ways. So some was just downloaded. I called downloaded information. Because it's like really quick. It's not your thoughts. It's all the way dad's here, cancer, you know, born in July, died in December. You know, you have three kids, something like that. Or sometimes I would see the familiar spirit right there. Oh, Mom's here. She has red hair and green eyes, but she's speaking in a language I can't understand and you know, whatever. And that's how the description would come of the entity.

Of course, it's an entity masquerading, which is what you said in the beginning. And that is the answer to that question that these are demons masquerading. Was I supposed to give the answer yet or no?

Eric Huffman: That's fine. That's fine. We don't bury the lead here. But at the time you thought you were genuinely helping people see and hear from their deceased relatives, their loved ones. You know, I can understand how that's easy to feel like you're really helping people because they're touched by it, they're changed by it. And you thought at the time that it was legitimate.

You've told stories in other interviews and in the book, which we haven't mentioned yet. The book From Psychic to Saved is Jenn Nizza's book. If you're watching and listening, be sure to check that out. Because I read it. It's incredible.

Some of the stories you told were, I mean, shocking to a layman like myself in this particular realm because I just didn't know things like this... I'm the type of person, I'm very skeptical. And I just thought everybody that does this stuff is charlatans and they're making it up or they're conning people. But your claim is that no, they're really seeing things or hearing things that are technically accurate information a lot of the time.

You told one story in particular about a woman and her uncle who had tried to harm her in the past. Just for the sake of our listeners and for the sake of an example, can you share that story with us?

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, sure. Wow, it's interesting that you brought that one up because I just shared that in Canada at the event I was just speaking at because it was so mind blowing. I was hired to do a group reading and I always gave an option for the group readings. You either could all sit in the room together and I would just walk around and whoever got readings would get readings or you could do the very same thing and have a private 15-minute reading, just like I had back in the day. Of course, business cards were ready.

And I say that because there's going to be a hook. It doesn't matter what your intention is there. If you're a con artist, of course your intention is just to reel people in. That wasn't my intention. My intention was to continue to help people. So here we are, we're doing these 15-minute readings. So this woman comes in, it's her turn. So I'm sitting in this room with my candle, of course, and my book, right? And I'm sitting there and I don't know who's coming in. I don't know these people from Adam. I'm just here, you know, I get the call, I go to the party.

She comes in and she sits there and I start channeling and the demon masqueraded as this woman's uncle. So I start getting the information that this is her uncle. But something was very different this time. This was a very aggressive and bold demon because I could sense even the evil and hatred which was not usually, Eric, how these readings went.

It was like, mom and dad, oh, and we're crying and we're hugging and very loving or seemingly loving, I should say, of course, we know that it's-

Eric Huffman: Deceptive.

Jenn Nizza: Correct. You know, Satan masquerades as an angel of light. So it's important for people to know that it doesn't matter what it looks like. It doesn't matter how mushy-gushy it seems. It's the same demon as this guy that was coming through in this reading, which was the uncle that actually shot this woman and her brother when they were kids.

And I start seeing this information really quickly. You know, the newspaper articles, you know, all this stuff. And I'm sitting there and she's looking at me with daggers in her eyes as if I'm the uncle. Now I'm the messenger, right? And I'm sitting there and I almost feel like I'm in between this horrible thing. Was she gonna hit me? Was she gonna hurt me? Was she gonna... I'm not the uncle, you know?

But this was a very aggressive demon to do this. They serve their master, the devil. Okay, and what is the devil's agenda? To kill, steal, and destroy. I tell you, this devil was trying to take me out. You know, imagine if that woman would have jumped me. Listen, I'm not a fighter, okay? I'm just saying.

I don't blame her looking back at that, right? Imagine that happened to you. I don't blame her. You wouldn't want that spirit, if you will, again, you know, air quotes, showing up at a reading. Maybe she wanted peace. Maybe she did want closure for that. I don't know if that's what she thought she was going to get. I mean, you're not getting any of that anyway from a psychic reading. You're not going to get fulfillment, joy, closure, acceptance. You're not gonna get any of that. You're getting temporary instinct gratification that is false. False healing is false, but I don't mean to go off on that.

Eric Huffman: That's interesting because it seems like people who do sort of get into this, swear by it, and live by it, as though it does bring more assurance and something good to their lives. But you're saying it's not that at the end of the day, it's really just like spiritual junk food you subsist on.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, that's a great analogy. That's absolutely right. It's like being hungry all day. Well, junk food doesn't nourish you. Junk food, you'll just... But I would say it's like being hungry all day, eating all the food and still being hungry. There's zero fulfillment because you're going to liars. These are lying spirits. You're going to the demonic. The demonic does not offer true joy, everlasting joy, peace, or truth.

Accuracy, yeah, you'll get some accuracy in readings. Of course, for the very reason I mentioned before, because demons have been around for ages. They're fallen angels and they've observed. And what they've seen, they can report with 100% accuracy, okay? But they've also been observing.

And they're excellent manipulators. Planting seeds. I always say, they just have to give you a gentle nudge in the wrong direction for you to fulfill that... how do I say it? Not the false prophecy, the counterfeit of prophecy, for you to fulfill it yourself.

Eric Huffman: You mentioned earlier that demons can't see into the future. They don't know what's going to happen. But are you saying that because they've observed for so long patterns of human behavior that they can sort of know and project what's coming and they can give people the idea of what's coming.

And once they do, then that person... it is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy if they do it at that point. Like, even though it's a false one, it's a self-fulfilling false prophecy that they then aspire to because they've heard it from someone like yourself in the past, you know, who seemed to be authoritative and knowledgeable.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, I call it good guesses based on observation. So here's my little analogy, Eric. We're people, okay, as we know. We're people. We're not creatures that have been around for ages, watching and around and hearing things that we haven't heard and whatever. We get the point, right? But as a person, I can make a prediction and have a high rate of accuracy.

If I work with you in the office that you're, you know, you've got office workers there. They work with you from nine to five, Monday to Friday for a month. And I asked them on the, let's say you, Eric, maybe... and you probably don't do this, but let's say Eric decides that he comes in 15 minutes early every day because he's a hard worker and he brings Dunkin' Donuts with him, which is a donut place, which most people don't. And he does that Monday to Friday for four weeks.

On the fifth week prior to that Monday, I'm gonna ask one of your coworkers, what do you predict Eric is going to do at 8:45 that on Monday? And will he have anything? What's gonna happen with Eric? "Yeah, I predict he's gonna come in 15 minutes early and he's gonna bring with him Dunkin' Donuts." But that day, maybe you don't feel well. Maybe something else happened. You got sidetracked. You couldn't make it there until nine. Only God knows the future, but that person's accuracy rate, bet you it could be like in the high 90s, 99%.

Eric Huffman: I mean, it's just as simple as the adage that says the best predictor of future events is past events, right? So you just observe. From a demonic perspective, they've had a lot of time to observe us humans doing what we do. So, yeah, I can understand that. Yeah. I'm more of a Krispy Kreme guy than a Dunkin' guy, but I get the analogy.

So whenever someone like a psychic or a medium gets something wrong, what are the typical excuses or reasons why that are given?

Jenn Nizza: Well, number one, they're always going to get something wrong. They're always going to, because again, their information's coming from demons that don't know the future, and it's not real prophecy. It's not coming from God. So there's always gonna be a piece of information that's wrong, and there will be a justification for it. Well, it's your fault. You didn't smudge enough. You didn't go down that road. You could have done that, but you did this instead.

And it's interesting because the client or the person getting the reading will grab onto the one piece of accurate information, and all the rest of it could be wrong, and they won't even care.

Eric Huffman: Because one thing.

Jenn Nizza: They're so addicted. As long as something resonates with them.

Eric Huffman: How interesting. So would you see repeat clients? Like would they come back?

Jenn Nizza: Yes.

Eric Huffman: Could I ask-

Jenn Nizza: I had what I called VIP clients.

Eric Huffman: Really? VIPs.

Eric Huffman: This is a personal question, but what was the going rate for a 15-minute reading or half an hour reading or whatever? What would somebody pay?

Jenn Nizza: I don't remember the 15-minute ones per se, but I think I got up to, for an hour. And I just want to preface this with saying I thought I was good for this. I thought I was the good guy, because I wasn't charging as much as the other readers. I think I got up to, like, 250 for an hour reading, which, I mean, you know, very nice of me because you know, I don't want to just be available for the rich, Eric, I want to be able to be available-

Eric Huffman: You're a woman of the people.

Jenn Nizza: ... Yes. I was a good guy.

Eric Huffman: A psychic of the people.

Jenn Nizza: I wasn't charging thousands of dollars.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. I bet that-

Jenn Nizza: That's what I got up to it.

Eric Huffman: I bet the high-level ones do charge a pretty penny.

Jenn Nizza: Oh upwards towards a thousand or more. Some more than that. And then when you're doing those group readings if I remember correctly, I probably started at like $50 per person. But I know that I that got higher. I just don't remember what... I mean, we're going back now some years. I don't remember. But imagine you have a group of 10, 12 people. And you're there for just maybe two hours. But you to-

Eric Huffman: So you were doing this in your parents' basement for a time? I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Jenn Nizza: Well, I wanted to mention that... you know, because this is where people will think it's all about being a charlatan. But in the New Age group that I was in in the divination group that I was in right after I found out I was a medium and I shouldn't put quotes around that. I was a medium. I was told that you have to charge money for readings because it's an exchange of energy.

So I'm using my energy I'm changing something about my energy to tap into your life and into your loved ones or what have you and there has to be an exchange. It could be a dollar. It doesn't matter what it is. But when it's your job you have to pay the bills. I'm just being fair.

Eric Huffman: And it validates the energy exchange I guess in a way. That's interesting. I mean, all religions have that element to them, right? I mean, I think it just depends on what exactly you're doing and how true it is? Along the way, you're doing this in your parents' basement. I guess you talked to them about what you were doing for a living. Did they or did anybody put like warning signs up to say? Hey, this might not be the way for you.

Jenn Nizza: I read them too. I read my pet... my dad, I would say was a little bit more of a skeptic in the beginning in general. As time went on... he actually just mentioned to me the other day. He said, Jenn, you would tell these people the nicknames that they had deceased people went by and the nicknames that they called these people. And he would see these people crying and hugging me and he was just so proud. He was so proud of me. Mom was proud of me too. They were very proud of me. They were all for it.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, because as best as they could tell you were genuinely helping people.

Jenn Nizza: Right. That's right.

Eric Huffman: That was the end-all-be-all, their mentality.

Jenn Nizza: Yes, that's absolutely right. The rest of the family too was supportive. I did not hear any warnings. I did not hear the gospel. I didn't hear any of that.

Eric Huffman: How many years did that go on as a practicing professional psychic?

Jenn Nizza: The better part of a decade.

Eric Huffman: Okay. Did you ever-

Jenn Nizza: And then I was actually teaching it. I was teaching. I led my own divination group.

Eric Huffman: Okay. Did you ever channel or see or hear from a loved one of yours?

Jenn Nizza: You know, I remember that I wanted to channel my grandfather. I remember that when he passed away. But I think I just wasn't willing to go there. I don't know why. I think I was just so sad. I was so sad and I was waiting on him to say something to me or to talk to me.

But when I was 16, I lost my great-grandfather and I had a dream that looked like him and seemed like him. I couldn't sleep for two weeks. I was hysterical. It was a big loss for me. Was I 17? I was 16 or 17. I believe he came to me in that dream at the time and then I had peace-ish. Peace-ish.

Eric Huffman: Would they be another demon or would that be-

Jenn Nizza: Oh 100%? The dead do not communicate with the living. The dead do not communicate with the living. Period. People say yeah, so-and-so came to me in a dream. And I have to say, hey, listen, a dream could be that you just miss that person, you're thinking about them and you have that kind of day residue or whatever coming out in the dream. Or you can be attacked by demons in dreams. I've had psychic attacks, which I mentioned earlier. So yeah, that would be a familiar spirit.

Because they want you to believe the lie, Eric. They want you to think that you can communicate with the dead. Because as long as you subscribe to that, you're in disobedience to the Lord and you're not going to God. If you could communicate with your loved ones in a dream, would you ever want to wake up?

Eric Huffman: Right? Exactly.

Jenn Nizza: You lose your children, your children die, your spouse dies, right?

Eric Huffman: And how hateful. Really how hateful of these demons to play on those deepest griefs and emotions.

Jenn Nizza: That's right.

Eric Huffman: But I mean we should expect nothing more from them. I suppose they do hate us after all.

Jenn Nizza: You're right. But that's something that really hurts my heart because when I was a reader, I read people that lost children and I'm believing as much as they are that that was their child speaking to them. And I had this burden to connect them because of the grief. It's just a hamster wheel. It's a demon masquerading as somebody's child who died of cancer. And it's not ever enough. You're on a hamster wheel when you're going to demons. You're not ever fulfilled like we said before. They don't ever stop at one reading. You can't. You can't.

Eric Huffman: When did all of this turn frightening for you? When did you start to maybe realize that maybe these spirits were nefarious or...? When did you realize you were dealing with demons and how do they manifest themselves?

Jenn Nizza: Well, during the mediumship and really right before the mediumship started was when they were getting bolder and I was getting touched by these demons when I was on the treadmill. I remember it-

Eric Huffman: Physically touch?

Jenn Nizza: Physically. Physically touched. Up and down my hands, my arms and I was like... I would jump off the treadmill and I would start to see them manifesting. So prior to that which I mentioned before, you know when I was doing the mediums, I'm just backing up a little bit. So before the mediumship started, that's when I started to see the manifesting which makes sense because then when they were just deciding to present themselves during readings, now I was like, "Okay, I can just see some are bad, some are good."

I was afraid in those moments. I was afraid but it didn't stop me because then I believed I could protect myself with false tools of protection. Sage, my imagination. Even saying the Lord's Prayer. That was something I was exposed to in divination group. The leader of the divination group, she said the Lord's Prayer before we were about to practice necromancy. And I believed every lie that I was sold when I was...

Again, remember that the lies are not coming from the people. Are there charlatans? Yes, of course there are. Are there con artists? Yes. Of course, there are. Just like in every group of people. That doesn't invalidate that it's real. That doesn't make psychic communication, divination, witchcraft, the occult unreal because of those bad apples. It's all bad. But you know what I mean?

Eric Huffman: Sure.

Jenn Nizza: This has been going on for ages and God is crystal clear about it. So I was afraid at moments and times throughout this process. But what started to happen was it just was escalating. The more I went down this road, the more demons were around me that there was no rest, there was no peace. I would call it chatter. I could always hear them. I couldn't even be out doing something. I was getting an ultrasound one time. I may have put that in the book. I don't remember. Don't come at me.

Eric Huffman: That's okay.

Jenn Nizza: It was five years ago. I was getting an ultrasound and I start getting information for this woman giving me the ultrasound. And of course, I would say, "Hey, I'm a medium. Is it okay to give you an... and like ten times out of ten, you know? Oh, yeah. And next thing, you know, they're making an appointment. But that's not because I was trying to sell them. I was getting information. I really wanted to unload it. I wanted this spirit, if you will, to leave me alone.

So this was escalating, and it got to a moment in time, a second really, that it was so heavy upon me. I was probably near to possession, I'm telling you, it was that bad, that I cried out the name of Jesus Christ. Like stopped the presses for a second, why am I calling on G and who is Jesus anyway, really? I only knew the New Age Jesus and the one depicted in the movie around Easter time, which I would cry.

I called out to Jesus. I called on His name for help, for help. Not my spirit guide, not my deceased grandmother or grandfather or somebody else's but Jesus. And I tell you this piece came over me, just came completely over me that I knew something happened. But I didn't know exactly what.

Because remember at this moment, I don't know that I'm a sinner that needs a Savior. I don't know that I have a Savior. I don't know any of that. I don't know the good news. But I know something happened. This was the beginning of God drawing me. That's what it was.

Because guess what, then I didn't want to be a psychic anymore, but I didn't know why. Wait, what's happening? What is this whole thing? I didn't want to be a psychic anymore, but I didn't know why and I stopped for a while. I went on this kind of truth-seeking spiritually vulnerable few months-

Eric Huffman: And financially vulnerable if you'd stopped working.

Jenn Nizza: Well, yeah. Well, that too. But it didn't drive me back to the readings yet. After a few months of constant deception, I was still being deceived, I was... The devil didn't want to lose a grip on me yet. I was one of his servants. I was one of his pawns. He didn't want to lose his grip on me yet. I was like reading books that ended up with people with reincarnation. So more New Age lies.

So I was still deceived. I go back to the readings, yet in the beginning in my introduction, I add God in there. And I would say to these people, well, you know, I'm not God though, right? Why where did this come from? Why was I even saying that? That's not something I would have said.

Well, this didn't go on for that much longer because... the whole process was about 10 months. So some people are instantly saved absolutely. For me, God started drawing me. After I went back to the readings not that long after, a dear friend of mine, Beth, who went to the divination group with me years prior... I mean, I read her friends, her family, you know, we were all in the New Age community together.

We hadn't seen each other in a while, and she comes over for dinner and she starts talking to me about Jesus. Wait, what? And this church that she started going to and how much she loves it and now she's inviting me to this church. You know, little, of course, that I know that in between the last time I had seen Beth and this time she'd been saved. And here we are and God using her.

And she invites me to the church and I said no. I said no. "Good for you, Beth. You do you bro?" You know? It's like that type of thing. I declined her invitation. But God. Because it was a month later on a Sunday, of course, I woke up that Sunday and I wanted to go to that church, but I didn't know why. Sound familiar Jenn? Yeah, that was a revelation I got just like, you know, a few months ago.

Wait a minute, it was God the whole time, right? So I go to the church that day and Non-denominational Christian, you know, Bible based church, which is something I was not used to, I had only been to Catholic masses, you know here and there. I was like, What is this thing going on in here, these people with their arms up and the music and it's singing. I'm like, okay.

Eric Huffman: It's not even Christmas. What are they even doing here?

Jenn Nizza: Why are we here? What's going on? It was beautiful. That was the day I was singing the lyrics with the congregation and one lyric was Jesus saved me. And when those words came out, right... I'm not going to start. I get very emotional at this point. When those words came out of my mouth I flashbacked immediately to the moment I called on His name. And that was it. I knew it. I knew it was Him. I knew it was Him who showed up for me ten months prior. I knew it was Him who saved my life physically and eternally. And I knew He was the Son of God. And I knew that I was free because the tears started to flow from my face. And I tell you those invisible shackles, those chains, it was like if you can just put a picture to it, just broke off. They just broke off me and I heard the gospel. I was singing it for heaven's sake. And this was it. This was powerful.

I go home from that church and the first thing I did was Google search "What does the Bible say about psychic mediums? And I Google search because I did not have a Bible on hand which shouldn't really be a surprise at this point in the story. But I Google search and I saw all these verses. And it makes so much sense to me now in hindsight why that would be the first thing on God's agenda. Because we can't serve two masters. We can't drink from the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. 1 Corinthians 10:21.

Eric Huffman: So what sorts of things did you find about... what does the Bible say about divination and these practices? Just for the sake of everybody watching.

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, thank you. I mean, Deuteronomy 18 really starting in verse 9 because this is when God of course is sending Moses... Moses is leading His people into the promised land and there are some instructions here, right? When you enter the land the Lord your God has given you, do not learn to imitate the detestable practices of the people there. And he starts with sacrificing your son or daughter in the fires. And Mediumship. Do not practice or consult mediums, necromancy, fortune-telling, interpreting all means.

Look how God puts it together. Sacrificing your children and witchcraft right in the same little group here. And I saw the word "medium" and it was like a spotlight was shining on me. Because that's what I was — a medium. And oh my gosh. Now I didn't know. Of course, God, are you talking to me? Of course, He's speaking to because He speaks us through His word.

I saw Acts 16:16, that the slave girl who had the demon of divination, the spirit of divination. And they cast that demon out of that girl, but she was a fortune-teller. That's what she was doing Acts 19:19. Revelation 21:8. Sorcerers will not inherit the kingdom of God but go through the second death through the lake of fire with the liars and idolaters and sexually immoral. And I'm seeing all this and I'm like, Okay.

I also see, "Pick up your cross and follow me," the Lord Jesus said. "Well, I don't know all the ins and outs Lord Jesus, But I know that you are my Savior, and what you say goes. And I have to quit my job." And I did.

Eric Huffman: Wow.

Jenn Nizza: That was 11 years ago.

Eric Huffman: Thank God. That moment and on Google was that the first time you'd ever really been confronted with the notion that what you dedicated your life to to that point was fundamentally evil? Was that the first time you'd ever...?

Jenn Nizza: Yes.

Eric Huffman: Wow.

Jenn Nizza: Now, the interesting thing is I had an idea that other people might not like what I was doing which is really interesting. Like, "I'm born-again Christian. That cult."

Eric Huffman: Sticks in the mud.

Jenn Nizza: And it's interesting that when you're serving the devil you're going to have animosity towards Christians and towards the word of God. Meaning you're gonna take offense towards the gospel.

Eric Huffman: After you came to faith in Christ and realized what you'd been doing was wrong and left that career behind, were you free and clear? Did you still face demonic oppression of some kind? Did he still come after you, the enemy?

Jenn Nizza: Well, he did. It started about a month... I think it was a month after I was... So, God, of course, went before me. This was great. Now I'm part of that church. I'm getting counseling with one of the pastors there. I know nothing about church at this point. I don't know that there could be more than one pastor. But you know, he was a pastor. In other words saying the sermons are preaching on a Sunday is what I mean to say.

Because pastor Jonathan was, you know, counseling me, but the other pastor the senior pastor was one I was used to doing the sermons. So then one day the senior pastor is not there, so pastor Jonathan was... he goes up there to the pulpit to preach. I'm like, Oh, what's he doing up there? Oh, that's this is cool. And he's up there and I start getting attacked, demonically attacked, I started getting psychic information about the pastor.

Eric Huffman: Wow.

Jenn Nizza: I can make this joke. It was probably as if I'd seen a ghost because I probably just drained of all. I was Horrified. I was scared. Was I a bad Christian? Did I do something wrong? Why was this happening? I thought I was free from this. I thought I was done.

Eric Huffman: Was it scary to you because you were still getting this information or was the information itself scary about what this trusted leader was maybe potentially up to know...?

Jenn Nizza: Yeah. No, it was the first part just that I was receiving any sort of psychic information.

Eric Huffman: Got it.

Jenn Nizza: I met with him on Tuesdays and I didn't want to go. I felt ashamed. Ah, the agenda becoming clear right, if you think back on it?

Eric Huffman: Sure.

Jenn Nizza: The devil didn't want me in church, didn't want me getting counseling with the pastor, didn't want me exposing this, didn't want me evangelizing one day or resting in the peace of Christ and the victory in Christ. So it makes perfect sense now, right, looking back. But I went because I was indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

God gave me the strength to go to the meeting and face this and I told him what happened that day. And he said, I'm not gonna lie and say that it didn't hit a nerve because it did. The information was personal and I hit a nerve.

Again now I only know this guy for what, like a month or whatever it is, you know. And he's counseling me. I'm not interrogating him or finding out about when he was a kid. But it was so great that I went and told him the truth because then he was able to help me in prayer and Get into like prayer warrior mode. Things that I didn't know, the armor of God. That we have spiritual weapons against us. I don't know. I was a baby Christian. I didn't know that.

Eric Huffman: Sure.  How could you so?

Jenn Nizza: So I've had demonic attacks since then but I always say that how demons attack us is personal. If you've dealt with gluttony, perhaps you're gonna get tempted or what.... the enemy has tried I believe to tempt me back with psychic attacks, but I mean maybe a handful of times in the 11 years I've been walking with the Lord.

Eric Huffman: Mm-hmm. So you shared that information with Pastor Jonathan and I'm guessing it was at least partially accurate because it shook him up a little bit.

Jenn Nizza: It was.

Eric Huffman: But the bigger picture here is that you're still dealing with demonic influence even after your conversion. I think that's a really important point for Christians to hear especially because I think we sometimes don't think about the devil enough and his continued activity and his desire to claim us even after we come to faith. Sometimes we think of churches as like these safe spaces where demons are not.

And I think biblically and experientially, we know that's not really the case, that these demons can in fact infiltrate churches and affect Christians. I don't think they can possess born-again believers but they can certainly work on us And I just don't think we give the devil his due in a lot of churches, especially Uppity well-to-do churches. Sometimes we just want to be sophisticated and moral people and we don't consider this enemy who Jesus said is trying to sift us as wheat or he's crouching at the door waiting to devour us and this enemy of ours is real.

This is the hardest thing to get proper American Christians to believe is that just as God is real and He loves us, the devil is every bit as real and hates us almost as much as God loves us. And God's plans for us are good and Wonderful beyond our wildest imaginations, but the devil has planned for us, too. And we need to be aware of that so that we can be prepared to resist him and to fight back.

But I think too many Christians are just too unaware of what's really going on. One of the indications of that is just our ignorance about the practices that you used to be a part of and their influence and infiltration in the church today.

So as we sort of wind down, let's talk a little bit about that. Where do you see these sorts of New Age practices infiltrating the church and the effect that they're having on well-meaning moral Christians in our culture today? What do you see?

Jenn Nizza: Some churches have let yoga into their church and certainly amongst the crowd. They'll say that yoga is okay to do. Yoga is a Hindu spiritual practice that can... the Hinduism part cannot be separated from it. It is not as though you can put on worship music, go into your church's gym, lay down a mat, and start putting your body into those yoga postures, which are deliberate. Those are deliberate postures intended to honor false deities, false gods aka demons.

So you can't put your body in those positions and honor their gods but say that you're going to leave the religious part behind, you're just breathing and stretching. That's not at all what it is, That's the lie of the devil to get you to do it. So we've seen yoga in churches.

The Enneagram is a New Age tool. What's the difference between that numerology? You don't need a number. You don't need to take this test. If you want to know what your spiritual gift is, go to the Lord and pray and pray and ask Him where you should be serving in the church.

Eric Huffman: You mentioned the Enneagram. Both of those are... yoga and the Enneagram are probably gonna hit a lot of people pretty close home because they're so widely accepted and a lot of churches have you know, like you mentioned some holy yoga, you know Christianized version of yoga and you're warning against that and you're warning against the Enneagram, which is very popular in many American churches.

You mentioned automatic writing earlier being something that you were into sort of channeling up. I guess it's a writing discipline that you just... it's not you doing it. It's something doing it through you. Is that right?

Jenn Nizza: That's right. You're in a trance-like state or you know, you're in that altered state of mind. I guess it's an altered state of mind where you're channeling. For me, it was pen and paper because I'm very old school.

Eric Huffman: Sure.

Jenn Nizza: But you could even be on a computer and you'll just got da da da da.

Eric Huffman: The reason I bring it up is I was looking into the Enneagram and I'm doing some research on the Enneagram and it looks to me like the basis of the Enneagram was given through automatic writing. I can't remember the name of the man who received this message but he was the originator of what became the Enneagram and it was given to him through some spirit channel, through the practice of automatic writing. It really started me thinking about how we treat the Enneagram and how careful we should be.

And for everybody watching and listening, we're not... I don't think Jenn or I are trying to be alarmist about this stuff and you know demonize people who practice this stuff, I think what I hear you saying is be very careful and vigilant in all things because you wrote in your book that these demonic forces have free will but it's limited and they must be invited into our lives. They require our consent.

And some of these practices are sometimes us giving unwittingly our consent to demonic influence in our lives. And that's why it's so important not to be fearful but to be very careful and vigilant about things like Enneagram, like Yoga, like Ouija boards and obviously tarot cards and other sorts of psychic practices because by doing these things we might be offering our consent to forces we're not prepared to handle. Is that correct?

Jenn Nizza: That's 100% correct. I so appreciate you even doing the show and exposing this. Of course, we're not at all ever attacking people. But we are exposing the practices that people are practicing. That's what we're coming at. The New Age ideologies, the concepts because they're demonic. They're doctrines and demons. And let me tell you, when you give that permission, there are side effects, I call them to this. There are consequences.

Demonic oppression is not a joke. So no, we don't want to over-demonize things, but we don't want to under-demonize either. Just like you said, there's a balance. We know there's a spiritual battle. God is clear about it in Ephesians 6:12 in 2 Corinthians 10:3-6, we have the arm... You know, He gives us spiritual weapons. But there are side effects of it. And the children are being targeted. You know, stardom young, recruit the army. This is what he wants to do.

So I think especially for Christian parents, Eric, it's so important for them to be aware of these things because through the music industry, through cinema, social media platforms, these apps, cartoons, the devil is all over them. And witchcraft is the star of the show, the star of the show.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. And it's been so normalized since the onset of social media. TikTok in particular. You're big on TikTok, by the way. That's been part of your ministry. How would people find you online? I mean just in that vein. How would people find your channels?

Jenn Nizza: TikTok is Akawitch talk. You could go to my website expsychicsaved.com. Www.expsychicsaved.com and all of my socials are there, the social media platforms: Instagram, YouTube. I'm working on growing the YouTube channel now. We're doing lives over there. We have fellowship. We have a community which is really nice. I am exposing all of these New Age practices these topics over there.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. Well as you should. There's no one better equipped or positioned to do that because you've seen it. You've seen both sides of it and you've lived it.

A couple more questions before we close. And the first would be, just as you have recovered from that period of your life and you've let Jesus in where the demons once worked, if we have to... I'm thinking about people who might feel like they've been exposed to this stuff or someone they love that consent has been given and demons have been running roughshod in different ways for however long they have and then Jesus comes in. Is it as simple as revoking the consent and evicting them or is it a process that you experience over a long period of time?

Jenn Nizza: I say that it's the repentance. Jesus is our deliverer. So when we come to Christ and we're saved, we are delivered out of the kingdom of darkness and brought into the kingdom of light, true light, the true light of the world Jesus Christ. Repentance.

So when I was saved, I stopped. I turned, I turned the whole other direction. I got rid of all of my Tarot cards, all my paraphernalia, and I stopped doing readings. So you repent You change your mind. That's what repentance is. And you pick up that cross and you follow Lord Jesus.

But like you mentioned before but don't think that you're exempt from some sort of demonic attack or oppression as we're running this race of faith. We know that's going to happen. Again Ephesians 6:12, we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but against the principalities, the authorities, the cosmic powers, and the darkness in the higher heavenly places. So it's happening.

So God warns us of this battle, that we're in a battle, but that we have the victory already in Christ Jesus. We do not need to be afraid. They can't destroy us. We're sealed in Christ. Once we come to Christ and we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, this is really good news. And we have spiritual weapons. Like you said, resist the devil and he will flee. The armor of God, prayer and fasting. And of course, filling our mind with the truth daily, the word of God. So reading our Bibles daily is so crucial so that when we see those lies coming, we can combat it immediately with the truth. And I do pray that more churches would be preaching on this topic.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, I agree. We've tried to with some consistency and it freaks everybody out, but we do it anyway, because it's too important to ignore. What have you done with the inevitable, occasional, maybe feelings of shame or guilt about instead of helping all those people all those years, maybe doing harm or being an agent of darkness in their lives? In the aftermath of your salvation, what have you done with all that?

Jenn Nizza: Yeah, that's hard because I've had several of those moments of shame and heartbreak because where if I was saved, obviously, I mean, I wouldn't have been in that position, but speaking to a young man with brain cancer and they hire me to give him assurance about heaven, a psychic medium. And I thought back and that came to me and I thought back, imagine if I could have shared... Oh man, I cried. There's nothing I can't take it back.

I asked the Lord to forgive me and He forgave me. There's no condemnation. So when I feel this way, heartbroken about it, I have to bring it to the Lord, surrender it to Him. And all I can do is hope in my heart that maybe somebody did come on his path. Maybe the Lord sent somebody just in the nick of time. And all I can do is move forward with Him. But I do have those moments, Eric.

Eric Huffman: I get it. I get it, maybe more than you know. And I think you're-

Jenn Nizza: And it actually makes me angry.

Eric Huffman: Sure, but sister, I just want to encourage you, your grief and heartbreak is a further sign of your salvation and sanctification. And it is God who saves and it's not all up to us. And He's gracious and good. And so be encouraged in that. I know how difficult. That's an important thing to consider because that's one of the ways the dark side can continue to try and influence us is by using our own shame against us. And so, yeah, be encouraged and know that, yeah, you can't change the past, but God is good and He is indeed the one who saves.

Thank you for sharing that, by the way. That was very vulnerable and good to hear for our people here, I think.

When you think about Christians in this culture today and people, especially Christians, who might feel like this isn't something serious, the people that harp on this stuff are just kinda getting carried away and whatever, sensationalizing things, what would you say to the church today about the gravity of this situation?

Jenn Nizza: It's extremely heavy. It's a very serious warning against this. Don't ever take it lightly. Don't even take the sweatshirt with the Ouija board on it and target lightly. Don't take any of it lightly. Because, again, Satan is on a mission. He's on a mission. His demons are on a mission. He's real and for a church to think otherwise is very alarming to me, to be honest with you.

The church, all of us, right, to just skip along and act as though this may just be entertainment or, hey, no big deal that Taylor Swift is using it in her music. It is a big deal because they're influencing children. They're influencing unbelievers. And as a believer, you're susceptible to temptation as well. And you don't want to get stuck in his snare. You don't want to get stuck in his snare. Trust me, it's a very bad road to go down. And we have to be on top of these matters. That's what we have to be.

We have to be warning people about them and understand what they are and educate ourselves on them. Because then you wonder, right, are you taking all of this so lightly? But then you wonder why you're having sleep paralysis, why you've all of a sudden started having horrible nightmares, why you feel anxious all of a sudden, or you're in a depression, or you don't feel like going to church for like three weeks. Oh, well, you were entertaining the Enneagram a few weeks ago. You were taking yoga classes. You were looking at the tarot cards at the bridal shower. You have to take it seriously and you have to know what it is.

Eric Huffman: The Bible calls it giving the devil a foothold. Just give him a little crack in the door, you know? And why? Why do that if we know the potential for bad outcomes? You also talk about the potential for negative influence on loved ones who live under the same roof and the effects that your daughter suffered because of your opening the door to that world. We don't need to get into that now. I just think people need to know that others around us are affected by us giving consent in various ways.

Jenn Nizza: 100%, and let me maybe share it with you guys first, you and your show. I'm very happy to report that my daughter consistently comes to church, is a part of the church, and is saved.

Eric Huffman: Praise God.

Jenn Nizza: But went through horrible... yeah.

Eric Huffman: Wow, praise God. He is good. And despite us, sometimes He is good and He loves us. And He loves us even more than the devil hates us. And that's our salvation, that's our hope.

Well, Jenn, thank you so much for this time today. Thanks for sharing this harrowing and fascinating story about God's grace through the darkness. We will make sure that all your contact information and links are in the show notes, people can find your work. I encourage people to check out your book, From Psychic to Saved. It's a fantastic, pretty quick, approachable read, and y'all can get that wherever books are sold. So, Jenn, thank you again for being with us today.

Jenn Nizza: Thank you, and God bless you.

Eric Huffman: God bless you.